Some of these thoughts are things I’ve already posted on Twitter or in comment threads elsewhere. I’m just copy/pasting. If you follow me around EVERYWHERE you will have already read some of this (stalkers). Sorry. I’m home sick today, and alas, it is a bit too much to ask of me, to summon great thoughts twice. Perhaps mW has his own stuff to add.
Devin... we meet again.
On The Great Fallacy of Tyson Chandler Coming Back to Save Us All:
New Orleans fans (and players) have clearly been relying on Tyson Chandler’s return to give hope to this team… and… well, he’s something of an emotional leader for them, but he couldn’t even run in the 4th quarter. He was limping up and down the floor. If it wasn’t the playoffs, he wouldn’t be out there. His big return is just not gonna happen. Dude is hurt.
If we don’t win Game 3 shut him down? Just throwing it out there. I know we relied on him to inject some hope in this team, but it’s probably starting to be time to face the facts.
On Chris Paul and David West’s Troubles:
If you had told me Peja and Rasual would be that good from three, Posey would reappear from wherever he went in Game 1 with some mad hustle, and Devin Brown would have 4 points in 8 minutes and only miss one shot, and that we would lose because David West couldn’t hit jumpers and layups and Chris Paul was tentative, I would have laughed at you.
I know Byron Scott is never, ever going to do this, because he would never go all D’Antoni, but wouldn’t it be refreshing to see the Hornets go small and throw Butler, Stojakovic, Posey, and Peterson out there with an 18-point deficit and 5 minutes left, and just have them jack threes? ‘Sual and Peja were on from three all night. Seriously. Please tell me how that would be any worse when you’re already losing and your two best players can’t get into the paint.
On Denver’s Shooting:
Hot. Damn. I’m not sure if I mean that to be read as two separate words, each expressive of the Nuggets’ shooting last night, or as the phrase “hot damn.” I’m not sure it matters.
Here’s a question I wonder if someone can answer for me: the Hornets’ numbers say they are not a bad defensive team. But can you adjust for pace? What are the numbers on that? Are we really defending well, or are we just slowing other teams down to something approaching our 28th in the league pace?
On TNT’s Awesome(ly dumb) “Team Role” Blurbs Under Each Player’s Name
Oh, the fun I could have with this. “Chris Paul. Team Role: Jesus Figure.” “James Posey. Team Role: Hired Killer.” “Tyson Chandler. Team Role: Ceiling Fan Repair Man.” “David West. Team Role: Beast.” “Kenyon Martin. Team Role: Thug.” “Dahntay Jones. Team Role: Mosquito” …..
On Devin Brown:
Last night at the watch party, there was a great moment. Devin Brown hustled to a rebound. Everyone yelled, “YES!” Then he backed toward the corner and raised the ball to shoot. Everyone yelled, “NO, Devin!” But he ended up hitting the shot, and the whole bar went, “YES! Devin Brown!” and it was all very hilarious.
And, just for fun, Great Moments in the History of Fail… with Devin Brown.
You yell at that douchethug, CP!
On DoucheThuggery:
After watching all the posing and pouty-face-making that went on in last night’s game, I am standing by my inclusion of Chris Andersen in the “douchethuggery” category. Not on the thuggery part, because he’s an all right guy– he and CP helped each other up after one play, and I caught him and D West exchanging a smile once– but definitely on the douche part. And it clearly was a mistake not recognizing Dahntay Jones in the original post for the douchethug that he is. It was my error. It has been corrected.
On the Topic of NBA Determinism:
Does anyone have ANY doubt that it will be LeBron vs. Kobe? I mean, what’s even the point? Sorry, sorry, but this is genuinely how I feel and it makes me so upset because I want to be surprised and inspired and moved. And that… just won’t do those things for me.
[OK, I posted this on At the Hive, and this next part is me stepping back in to clarify, because a lot of people in the comment thread jumped at me for thinking there's a big conspiracy with the refs calling things against the Hornets, but I didn't actually mean to say that.]
I wasn’t really talking about this game. I don’t believe there is a conspiracy against the Hornets. There’s no reason, if there was, that David Stern wouldn’t want CP3 to go deep into the playoffs. People love him, he equals revenue. I watched part of the Cavs game yesterday and it put me into this mood. I’m feeling rather fatalistic about the whole thing in general. I know the Cavs have played great basketball this year, but that article about LeBron being called for an average of less than two fouls per game? Have you read it? Even Kobe, Wade, CP have been in foul trouble. James has never been, not once. And it’s frankly unbelievable for a guy in DPOY consideration who throws his body around that much and goes to the basket that hard.
My frustration is that Stern apparently has no interest in doing something about the league’s rep for sketchy officiating and ridiculous star calls. And CP’s have gone way up this year from last year, I’ve noticed— anecdotally— are there stats on this? I actually read an article where Brandon Roy said something surprisingly frank about that. [mW informs me he saved this article somewhere. Perhaps he will post it.] Said that after his 50 pt game in November he started to notice the fact that he was getting whistles he doesn’t usually get. But you aren’t allowed to talk about the officiating or you get fined. I just feel like there is a possibility it’s allowed to continue, maybe, MAYBE, because then when things are slightly manufactured, it’s less noticeable?
This is really more a tangiential “What’s the point anyway? We know who’s getting to the final” than “Everyone hates New Orleans.”
I relish unpredictability in my playoffs. But does the NBA give us a court on which Cinderella cannot live? What happened to “anything is possible”? Go forth, young flawed Hawks and Sixers and Blazers. Go forth and dunk and leap and shine. Your time is short. I shall cry for you when you are gone.
On Byron Scott’s Weird Refusal to Give Minutes to a Guy Who Was a Starter Last Season:
You know what? I’ve said enough. Just trade Mo Peterson. He deserves to play. Somewhere.
On Buy Your Damn Tickets For Game 3 Already, for the Love of God, the NFL Draft is Terrible and Dull and Jazzfest Happens Every Freakin Year:
I posted this rant yesterday in one of those team-hating forum threads that just really piss me off. I posted it several hours before the game. It is everything I wanted to say and it still stands:
People get mad when the national media/other teams’ fans/whoever criticize this city’s sports fans and their commitment to this team. “Ha, the Hornets have no home court advantage!” And then look at what the SAME people are busting out with in this thread.
I defend Hornets fans a lot on my blog and around the web. Lord, I’m embarrassed. Ugh. You don’t NOT GO to a playoff game because they’re down 0-2. You think the Spurs fans did that last year? Just because the team might lose does not make it a terrible idea to go to a game. You’re there to be loud and show support and help them win.
Or at least that’s how I feel. I watched the Boston Celtics come back from a 30 point hole on the road in LA, in what pretty much turned out to be the NBA championship-deciding back-breaking game. As a fan, if that’s my team, I want to be able to tell my grandchildren I never turned off the TV. I want to be able to say I was there, I saw it.
Man, I don’t know. Someday, some of you are going to miss something great. I’m not saying it’ll be this weekend, but someday.
Well, that’s why I’m going, anyway. You do what you like.
Tired
LMAO! I remember that Devin Brown sequence. I was yelling NO DEVIN! But when he hit it I was like “YAYY!!” LMAO!
Oh and let me add that I told a friend of mine that I don’t know why any fan outside of Lakers/Cavs are getting excited or angry because it’s pretty much a given that it will be Lakers/Cavs just like last season was a given that it would be Lakers/Celtics. And it’s not really because they’re the best teams with the best records but you pretty much know from the beginning of the season. Especially when the media starts clamoring for it.
IM going to pick up a ticket for Game 3. If my regular season luck holds up for the Bees, I owe it to them to help out.
I’m glad you’re going.
The thuggery doesn’t surprise me. It’s the Nuggets. I mean, everyone knows what low down thugs they are so it shouldn’t surprise us
If we were healthy, this would have been over in 5 for us. We aren’t healthy though and West/Paul are tired.
Peja is nowhere….and our bench is a joke
4 points: I’m also surprised at the lack of real ingenuity of our line-ups. Not saying we should play Devin Brown, CP and AD together, but we never tried many different line-ups during the season which is the time to toy around. So how are we expected to experiment, or better yet, adapt to teams in the playoffs if we’ve never played NBA games with that experience?
- I haven’t really checked injuries or inactivations, but Ryan Bowen, Melvin Ely, and ESPECIALLY Mo Pete need to be utilized. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, right? Too bad it’s broken. I feel we might rehaul our roster this summer.
- “T-Mac 13 points” is the only memory I had of Devin Brown before he came to our rescue. Unfortunately, now I have many memories of Devin Brown.
- We all make mistakes on not pinpointing douchethugs sometimes. Thank you for addressing Dhantay (or however you spell his name) Jones. You are forgiven.
Holy Shit. there are TONS of tickets left! I got a row 1 ticket in 301!
Attack the Basket– Peja wasn’t nowhere. He hit three 3s in a row, and then got taken out of the game, I think. And CP kept going to West instead. No one knows why.
I left this comment on At the Hive, but I thought to post it here as well since you guys are talking about conspiracies theories
When your team loses in a blowout game you don’t have much room to complain about the officiating. I’m EXTREMELY tired to hear people talking about conspiracies against their teams. I’ve even heard Lakers and Cavs fans thinking there are conspiracies against their teams to keep them from making the Finals because the league likes small markets teams and teams without superstars better. Go figure. Fans see what they want to see.
It’s just bad officiating, nothing more nothing less. At the end of the day it comes down to players making and missing shots and Stern and the refs can’t do anything about it. So blame the players when they miss shots, commit turnovers etc, not the league or the refs. I’m tired to see people always trying to make excuses when their team loses. As a fan of the game it drives me nuts. There are plenty of reasons why the Hornets lost last night and none of them has to do with officiating. There were bad calls going both ways. Not to mention you are kidding yourself if you think the league would rather have Denver advancing over the Hornets and media-darling Chris Paul (and a few days ago Stern said that networks should talk more about him and other young stars instead of just talking about Kobe and LeBron….so think twice before accusing the league of hating Paul, the Hornets etc.). But, like I already said, fans are biased and see what they want to see.
There will ALWAYS be bad calls during games ‘cause basketball is the hardest game to officiate, there are lots of judgment calls than can go either way and, since players keep getting stronger and faster, it’s impossible to make the correct call all the times. So there will always be lots of no-calls, traveling etc. since it’s impossible calling every thing right given the speed of the game. It has always been like that in the past and it will never change so deal with it. Bad officiating or perceived bad officiating is part of the game. I don’t see how you could change it since fans complain even when refs make a great call.
Not to mention that you guys complain about bad calls after watching countless replays, slow-motion etc. from different angles. Refs don’t have the luxury of doing the same. I thought it was common sense. Evidently, it’s not. Maybe you should try to officiate a game yourself so that we all can laugh at you and call you a corrupt ref. Then we’ll see how bad you will feel.
And it’s not just you, Hornets fans. Fans of every single team complains about officiating. If the Nuggets lose this weekend I’m 150% sure Nuggets fans will blame the refs, even if they end up losing by 250 points because, you know, blaming the refs is always better than admitting to yourself that your team lost fair and square and the better team won.
ps: Someone said the Lakers always get the calls. After watching the Lakers/Utah series I wouldn’t be so sure. The calls are going Utah’s way more often than not.
And it wouldn’t be surprising if Cavs and Lakers end up in the Finals. Right now, they are, by far and away, the best teams in the league. So it won’t be because of the league fixing (HAHAHAHA don’t make me laugh) games. Just stop being delusional.
I also noticed you said you are fatalistic after watching the Cavs/Pistons game. Seriously? The Pistons are done and aren’t even trying. They already gave up (or at least it seems they did) so, by chance, are you saying the Pistons (who got run out of the building and were trailing by as many as 30 points late in the 3rd) lost because of the refs? For real? Listen, Cavs and Lakers are the best teams in the league right now and I don’t think it’s even debatable. And, after watching their playoffs games, it doesn’t look to me the league is trying to help them. Actually, in the Lakers/Utah series calls are going Utah’s way more often than not. Doesn’t look like the refs are helping the Lakers to win. In the Cavs/Pistons series the Pistons are getting outmatced and don’t even seem to care to play in the playoffs. So I don’t want to hear excuses if the Pistons or Jazz get eliminated by Cavs and Lakers.
I’ll repeat exactly what I said over there: THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID. In fact, some of those things are the opposite of what I said. What part of:
… made you think I was actually saying the exact opposite? And dear lord, I did a “FIND IN THIS PAGE” search and did I ever even say the word “Lakers”? And no one said the Hornets lost solely because of bad calls (I know it’s taboo, and it makes you “whiny” but it is a fact that a wrong charge call can result in a 6 point run for the other team, and if you count the free throws you might have made, then it’s an even bigger swing. Why is talking about it not “allowed”?). At the Hive never said that. I never said that.
In rhetoric, that’s a logical fallacy called a straw man. What I said was the league does not have a vested interest in cleaning up the officiating, because then on the occasions when they do stick their fingers in the pie, people will just be like, “Oh, the refs are bad” and dismiss it. And the stars are who make them their money. (Though, in my conspiracy theorizing, I can’t really place the Spurs. I’m working on it. The only thing I can think of is that dull, fundamental defensive basketball trumps officiating. Hmmm. Maybe we should all play that way.)
Can people please read before posting a giant rant?
The Pistons are playing badly? OK, tell me if that changes the fact that LeBron James– as I watched him– picked up the ball, tucked it under his arm, and took three giant leaping strides right at a group of Pistons defenders who were standing still. Whistle. Right. He was all alone. He could have put the ball on the floor and dribbled. But he didn’t. Because he knows he doesn’t have to.
And if you think, if a team did take the Cavs to six or seven in the early rounds, that there wouldn’t be some suddenly questionable calls popping up … I have a piece of high ground in New Orleans to sell you.
NOT TO MENTION. Your views of the league are colored by their commentators, their sponsors, who they want you to see. I didn’t even bring UP my real conspiracy theory… which is that, now that there’s already a team in OKC and it’s been made pretty clear we’re not moving, the league and their media are “allowed” to talk about the Hornets and New Orleans in a positive light. You know what? Where I live and the people I like and the team I root for has been stomped on and joked about long enough that maybe New Orleans folks see these things more clearly than people in other parts of the country see them. We’re the smallest market in the league. I bet they hate that Chris Paul ended up here.
And why am I not allowed to be fatalistic about the Lakers and the Cavs? Fatalism has a couple of possible definitions/interpretations:
1. That free will does not exist, meaning therefore that history has progressed in the only manner possible. (Stern Button negates free will. Or, Lakers/Cavs has been fated all year. Take your pick.)
2. That actions are free, but nevertheless work toward an inevitable end. (Hey, look, your beliefs about Lakers/Cavs could also be classified as fatalistic! Who knew?)
3. That acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against inevitability. (This is more where I’m at, and why I said I was depressed, because I like to see upsets and playoff magic and stuff. And it makes me sad that either a) I will not, or b) it won’t matter anyway)
Therefore it is entirely possible for a person to be fatalistic about Lakers/Cavs without even talking about refs or conspiracies or what have you. Whether the Pistons are trying or not does not enter into it. Maybe they’ve just realized the truth of definition #3. Maybe they never had a chance.
Man, I majored in philosophy and I am not a morning person. Don’t start.
Sorry but I can’t help but laugh when I hear people saying “the league hates us, our team etc.”. Those are just that, conspiracies theories. You don’t have any proof. If you listened to every single fan you would think the league hates every team, Lakers and Cavs included (yes that’s right). Like I previously posted, there are Lakers fans who think the league hates them because the league prefers to have small market teams over big market teams. Cavs fans think LeBron doesn’t get enough calls and that’s a big conspiracy because the league wants to upset LeBron. Celtics fans are convinced their team never gets any call. And on and on and on. So, who should I believe? The truth is that fans are homers and most of them can’t see things objectively. They always think everyone hates their team. And I can’t help but laugh.
And I’m not sure they hate Paul ended up in New Orleans. Why? Because small market teams need superstars to be successful and sellout their arenas. See Cleveland. Their arenas was half-empty before James joined the Cavs. Same with the Hornets. So the fact Paul joined the Hornets means the Hornets became a successful team. So how could the league hate it? I bet they would love to see the Grizzlies getting a superstar and finally start selling out their arena. Don’t you think? On the other hand, big market teams will always get huge crowds, superstars or not. That’s why LeBron doesn’t need to go to the Knicks. The Knicks will keep getting huge crowds, LeBron or not. The Cavs? I bet not as many people would come to attend their games if LeBron left? Think about it.
And don’t forget, Stern praised the Hornets and Paul lately and said that networks should talk more about him instead of talking only about LeBron and Paul. So much for not liking the Hornets.
And my views of the league aren’t influenced by ANYONE. I follow it since 1995 and I watched enough basketball not to let anyone influence my opinion. I just try to be as objective as possible and, by listening to opposing teams fans, you can see that most of the times they don’t know what they’re talking about. They think all the calls go against their team and everyone hates them which is ridiculous. But if you actually started following other teams, started reading what opposing teams’ fans say etc. you would see what I’m talking about. Case in point, the “At the Hive” comments section: Hornets fans said that the Nuggets were getting the calls; Nuggets fans said the Hornets were the team who kept getting the calls. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Truth is there were bad calls going both ways, just like what happens in every single game.
Bad calls are part of the game. The players keep getting faster and stronger meaning the game keeps getting more and more difficult to officiate. And I think everyone who understands the game knows that basketball is not an easy game to officiate. I think it’s the toughest game to officiate. It has ALWAYS been like that and I don’t see how you could eliminate bad calls etc. And people complain about officiating even when refs get the call right. I’ve seen it lots of times. The refs made a great call and people complained. So there’s not much you can do to improve officiating because fans will always complain about it, bad calls or not, superstars calls or not.
As far as the Pistons. I follow them more than any other team and this team gave up months ago. They don’t have any fire left anymore and the Iverson trade totally ruined this team, not to mention AWFUL coaching. Just think that they were one of the best home teams in the league and now have a negative record when it comes to home games. And they got destroyed by awful teams (Wolves, Grizzlies etc.) on their home court. Who knows, maybe tonight they’ll prove me wrong, but I doubt it. The starters have given up months ago. This team wouldn’t even win a best-of-seven series against the Clippers.
You also mentioned about wanting to see upsets. Well, you don’t see many upsets with the current format. If you want to see upsets watch the ncaa tourney since they have the one-and-done format. Best-of-seven series tend to “help” the best team so it’s obvious you won’t see many upsets. I don’t see what refs have to do with it. If the NBA playoffs were like the ncaa tourney you would see lots of upsets (just think about the Jazz beating the Lakers last night or the Bulls beating the Celtics in game 1, but in a best-of-seven series you won’t see many upsets). It has always been like that since the league adopted this format decades ago.
It’s a free country. Have your own opinion.
Just don’t put words into other people’s mouths. That really pisses me off.
“now that there’s already a team in OKC and it’s been made pretty clear we’re not moving, the league and their media are “allowed” to talk about the Hornets and New Orleans in a positive light.”
^lol….maybe you forgot it, but in 2006 the league decided to bring the 2008 all-star weekend to New Orleans in order to help the city..in 2006! when the Hornets were still playing in Oklahoma City before sellout crowds! And yet they decided to bring the all-star weekend to New Orleans despite the fact the city was on its knees! Did you forget about it already? And I clearly remember Stern talking in a good way about New Orleans in 2005 and 2006, which is when there were rumors about the Hornets remaining in Oklahoma. So, it’s not true the league started talking in a good way about the team and the city only when it was made sure the team was not moving.
http://www.nba.com/news/neworleans_060522.html
““The award of NBA All-Star 2008 is our vote of confidence in the progress that is being made in the reopening and rebuilding of New Orleans’ tourism infrastructure,” said Stern. “New Orleans will become the basketball capital of the world in February 2008, and demonstrate to a global audience that New Orleans is very much open for business.”
-May, 2006
oh, and thanks for calling me idiot btw. This idiot watches as many NBA games as possible since 1995 and not just teams involving my favorite team. And I read just about every article, blog I can. So I think to know what I’m talking about.
“and not just GAMES involving my favorite team”, not teams involving my favorite teams. My bad.
Your second post was great. I have no problem with people who don’t believe in conspiracy theories. I’m just not one of them. But your whole first comment was a reaction to stuff no one said.
But OK, say there’s no conspiracy. Say the refs’ blown calls completely coincidentally went the Nuggets way. I’m not talking ALL the calls. The free throws shot were pretty even. I’m talking the blown calls. And it was 100% a coincidence. Well… there’s nothing wrong with saying those calls were a factor in the game. Life does not occur in a vacuum. The game does not occur in a vacuum. If there’s a bad call that results in an 8-pt run in a close game, that call is a factor. Timing is a factor.
Say… the refs CLEARLY miss a call at the end of the game that results in free throws. And the other team wins on those free throws. There are now two schools of thought. A) The blown call was the proximate cause of Team A losing the game.
B) Team A should have been up by more than 1 point anyway or this never would have happened.
Now, a lot of people will say B, but I find that dubious because this is a game where lots of little bounces happens and many points are scored. A lot of games are close at the deciding moment, the last minute of play. Saying “people make mistakes, they don’t have replay, the game is fast” may all be true… but it doesn’t change the fact that the call was wrong and directly resulted in free points.
Hoopsfan007, no doubt you have the right to be skeptical about conspiracies. But to use NBA press releases as evidence is weak. The entire product is manufactured. Look, I don’t necessarily take what the Hornets announcers, radio people, or management say, because there is a spin to everything. I’ve seen it first hand. The same goes for the League as a whole. And as TT6 says, all media outlets are similarly controlled to put out the desired product. No one’s opinion is free from the influence of that spin, the abovesigned included.
If one were to subscribe to a conspiracy, I think Stern’s philosophy is “wait your turn.” Kobe waited his, and got an MVP. Lebron waited his, and now will probably get one. As for the Finals, Celts-Lakeshow was what Stern wanted from jump last year. Because Lakers lost, the “Kobe hasn’t got a Ring w/o Shaq” thread is still active, and so is the “when will LRJ win a Ring” thread. Tie them together, and you have a dream finals.
While I agree with you that every team complains about bad calls, clearly, some calls are worse than others. I also think it’s naive to believe that calls are incapable of changing the game. Ask the Wizards, who lost on LRJ’s 5-step no travel in last year’s Playoffs. Or imagine if Brewer gets whistled for a phantom foul on Kobe’s last second 3 last night? Only here’s the thing, rarely does it happen at the end of a game, because that’s the most obvious time, when the most eyes are watching. It usually happens when a team is down 4 and making a desperate run after being down 16. The no-call on the winning team’s defender causes a wrongful turnover and a fast break; instead of 2 points at the line, it’s 2 the other way, which is a 4 point swing, and the game, instead of being 2 points and close has jumped to 6, and then an offensive foul on the other end, a pull-up three, and now it’s 9. Momentum killed, game over. Basketball is hugely psychological game, and not only is it about frustrating players, and a ref can easily throw them off their game; should the player insulate against that, sure, but it happens. Moreover, the calls can be about getting a crowd involved or dead. For example, the Denver home crowd in Game 2.
It’ll never show up in the box score, and will always be unprovable short of a smoking gun memo stolen from Stern’s computer, but’s it’s absolutely possible. And if there are any ulterior motives from the NBA front office, the best weapon against them, sans proof, is exposure. So until the League promises to try and improve officiating or at least take responsibility for it, people should keep talking about it.
Also, Knicks get Rubio in the draft. You heard it here first. Been awhile since they stole Ewing, and hey, they are a major market. And yes, the answer is Stern would love CP in a major market; that’s why they hate the Hornets.
But that’s just my ten cents.
While using press releases may be weak, people can’t say that the league hates NOLA and didn’t say anything positive about the team and the city until it was made sure the team was not moving. Like I said, in 2006 the league decided to award NOLA the 2008 all-star game, despite the fact the city was struggling and the Hornets were playing in Oklahoma. And lots of media outlets and even the president of the nba players association didn’t like this decision. I remember NBAPA president Billy Hunter saying New Orleans wasn’t safe enough. And despite those claims the league decided to keep the event in NOLA and defended the city. So it doesn’t look like they hate it.
As far as wanting CP3 (or any other big-time player for that matter) in a major market. I don’t get it. Major market teams will always get huge crowds, superstars or not, while small market teams need superstars (or a winning team) in order to get huge crowds. So do you really think the league would rather have Paul or LeBron in NY and having two teams in New Orleans and Cleveland playing in half-empty arenas? The league wouldn’t look good in this way. Just look at the Grizzlies or the Kings or Wolves. They play in a half-empty (at best) arenas. So, don’t you think the league would love to see a superstar ending up there and helping those teams to become successful? Big-market teams will always find a way to fill the arenas. You can’t say the same for small-market teams.
I also don’t get the “wait your turn” Stern’s philosophy. Kobe deserved the MVP last year. LeBron deserves the MVP this year since he’s having an amazing season and it’s hard arguing against it. You can’t manufacture it. And, don’t forget, it’s not Stern who votes the MVP. The ones who vote for the MVP are those columnists, broadcasters (both national and local) who cover the NBA, so there’s not a conspiracy to give Kobe or LeBron the MVP.
Also, Celtics and Lakers were the top two teams in the league last year so it’s not a surprise they ended up in the Finals. And this year Cavs and Lakers are the top two teams in the league, so it wouldn’t be surprising to see them in the Finals.
Because all of them were likely, that is just a “coincidences” which make the it hard to fathom conspiracy–but doesn’t mean there wasn’t one to ensure the outcome. I didn’t say I agree with Stern’s choices, just that I believe he might. I agree that small market teams should have all the superstars; big markets don’t need them. But you tell me who the best players ever played for: Russell, Bird, Pierce, Garnett: BOSTON; Kobe, Shaq, West, Chamberlain, Kareen, Magic: LOS ANGELES; Jordan, Pippen, Rose (maybe?): CHICAGO. Only the Spurs defy this logic, but then again, how they landed Duncan is one of the prototypical conspiracies. Where was Stern when Stevie “Franchise” single-handedly destroyed the Vancounver franchise, or intervened to say Seattle had the worst lease in the NBA, prompting their move soonthereafter. He only supported Nola because the Owner made it clear he wasn’t moving; and even then, probably is still bitter about not getting his way.
Kobe deserved to be 2nd in the MVP voting last year, and probably really should have gotten it the year before. Had CP gotten MVP last year, I’d vote for Wade this year. It’s all connected. And no, Stern doesn’t have a vote, but he controls the entire packaging and gloss of the League; so I think you can make a valid argument that he influences all of the voters, whether they know it or not.
I’m not sure this is a place that’s going to appreciate “Kobe deserved the MVP last year” arguments. Just FYI.
As for the argument that the media votes on the MVP, please. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. The media decides in November which two players to talk about all year, then everyone votes for those two players, overlooking other guys that don’t get talked about as much. Surprise, surprise.
Officiating is a problem throughout the league. This is a league “where cheating happens”, “where makeup calls on the other end happens”. I was just reading a quote from Rockets coach Rick Adelman..
Adelman said the whistles were inconsistent.
“In the first six minutes, they must have called seven or eight fouls on both teams,” he said. “Hand-checking, everything else. Then it was like, ‘Let’s don’t call anything else the rest of the game.’?”
That’s the main problem I have with officials in that nothing they ever do is “consistent”. It only takes 2 or maybe 3 whistles if that many to swing momentum the other way. Reminds me of the Hornets game 6 last season against the Spurs. 5 point game and all of a sudden David West has 3 whistles blown on him back to back. As a human, frustration sets in then he ends up with a technical foul. It’s easy for officials to swing momentum and they can do it without it showing up in a boxscore.
And, Mo, you just said what I mean in far fewer words and with a more specific example.
LeBron deserves the MVP this year. It has nothing to do with what the media decided to talk about in november. LeBron is having an amazing year so he deserves it. Anyone who pays attention to basketball knows it. Also, just to prove you wrong. Nobody was talking about Wade being a serious candidate to win the MVP back in January, so this shows it’s not true the media decides “which two players to talk about” in november. They can’t know beforehand what will happen on the court during the season. Seriously, this thing is driving me nuts. LeBron ABSOLUTELY DESERVES the MVP and it has NOTHING to do with the media overlooking other guys in favor of him or Kobe. LeBron is having one heck of a season, way better than Paul or Howard or even Kobe. Wade is pretty close, though.
Do you even pay attention to the NBA outside the Hornets? Have you noticed how good LeBron is this year? How in the world did the media decide in november who to vote for? Ridiculous.
Yes, Lebron is playing extremely well this year but they did indeed start talking about him “perhaps being MVP” before the season started. It just so happens Lebron is “backing them up” by playing MVP worthy this season so it will be a no brainer. And Wade is not playing better than Paul. Surely not statistically. If anything Paul should be #2 in voting but he won’t be because the media along with mostly everyone else expected the Hornets to do better this season. They’ll put Kobe #2 because his team has the #1 record in the West. I don’t think he had a better statistical season than Paul either. The only thing Wade has on Paul and other players is that he was this season’s league leading scorer and probably had more blocks than the other candidates not named Howard. It just so happens that Wade is actually able to play this season because he wasn’t injured. He’s playing, he has a coach that’s not more concerned with leaving the team to scout players and his team was no longer in tank mode trying to snag the #1 pick of the draft so they end up with a better record than last season and all of a sudden Wade wants to show the world “he’s back” while playing with Team USA and then throw in how he starts playing this victim role of how “people tried to throw me away too quickly” and it all makes a nice storyline. I don’t know what makes Wade “pretty close”. I will certainly pay attention this offseason and the beginning of the season who the media will be mentioning in their 2010 MVP talk.
I watch a LOT of the NBA actually. Why is it so offensive for people to have a different opinion than you? There are lots of people with lots of different opinions and criteria on the MVP award. I’m not getting into that whole mess again because frankly, I don’t care. I mean, other people do exist who think the MVP is someone other than LeBron. That’s a fact. To not acknowledge that is silly.
Explain to me why Kobe’s name is always the 2nd name in the MVP discussion, then. Please, do. Yes, most media people talked about him over guys like Wade or CP. He’s having a worse statistical year than last year on what pretty much everyone agrees is the deepest team in the league. He really shouldn’t be in there, but these people just LOVE talking about him.
Please. It’s pretty naive not to realize that KOBE VS. LEBRON is the big huge manufactured storyline of the year. Would it be, still, without the hype? Probably. So then why do we need the incessant babble about it? That kind of coverage leaves other storylines out. I feel personally that those other storylines are far more compelling to me (never mind that I find neither of them a compelling or sympathetic personality– EDIT: actually, that’s not quite true. I find Kobe Bryant a compelling personality, but not sympathetic). Others disagree.
Whatever.
ESPN’s Bill Simmons, Chris Broussard, Jalen Rose and Marc Stein, just to name a few all predicted Lebron to be MVP in their preseason predictions. Just so happens Lebron did in fact have an MVP season so the award will be his but this goes to show that the media does indeed begin talking about it before the season begins. It’s up to the players to back it up I guess.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/081028
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/package?id=3659346
ticktock6, Kobe should also be on the All-NBA 2nd team this season also but he’ll most likely get on the 1st team because of his team’s record and well, because he’s Kobe Bryant. They’ll most likely put Paul on the 2nd team in favor of Kobe and Wade even though Paul had a better statistical season than he did last season and his team was only 7 games off of last season in spite of all the injuries the team had this season.
Can 3 guards be on All-NBA 1st team? Or does it have to be 2 guards, 2 forwards, 1 center?
I agree there are lots of other storylines more compelling than LeBron/Kobe and, personally, I’d love to see two different teams than Cavs and Lakers making it to the Finals. But it’s unfair when people say that the MVP was decided in november. That was just a prediction NBA columnists, talking heads made as part of their season preview. That was their personal opinion, not Stern’s. And I agreed with that prediction. Personally, I had LeBron 1st and Paul 2nd (and the league didn’t have any impact on this prediction).
Kobe is one of the top names in the MVP race mainly because his team, the Lakers, are a way better team than Hornets, and Heat. Whether you like it or not, the team’s record plays a huge role in this. Personally, I have Wade and Paul ahead of Kobe, regardless of team’s record.
That I know, it’s two guards, two forwards and one center.
“unfair”. LOL! Since when does “fair” play a part in anything? There isn’t even a set criteria to any of those awards so who’s to really say what’s “fair”? Last season the Lakers won 1 more game than the Hornets did and that was just the push the media needed to go ahead and vote Kobe MVP over Paul. Even if they would’ve ended up with the same record, I still believe Kobe would’ve gotten it because there was just way too much talk about how Kobe “hadn’t won it yet” and how he should’ve gotten it a few seasons ago. Add to that the Lakers were on television more and Paul’s historical season was going mostly unseen. Yes, Kobe played well last season too and last season turned out to be “his turn”. And yes, they do tend to use team records as their deciding factor but if they do that, I wonder why wasn’t any one of the Celtics’ players MVP last season?
@hoopsfan:
I had the same order, but that doesn’t stop me from being an extremely questioning person as regards the way the media colors people’s perception. Not all media guys with votes care about basketball. There is a huge segment of the population that only watches ESPN for sports news. And over 1/4 of their writers that they polled DID NOT PUT Chris Paul in their top FIVE on the MVP ballot.
Maybe I’m not a flat-out conspiracy theorist, but I’m highly skeptical.
I know this isn’t even the topic anymore , but my thoughts on officating: Officiating in the NBA is bad. It just is. I know its a hard job… but the officating is just plain bad. Whether its “home cookin” or superstar calls… it’s bad. Does it usually decide games? No, I think the better team generally wins… but you can’t tell me that bad calls don’t sometimes have an effect. What’s frustrating is that David Stern seems to not care.
And yes, the mainstream media does color perception… very much so. ESPN’s opinion becomes the majority opinion. It’s sad.
Lebron is not MVP. I’ll say it. His statistics are good this year, bit CP3 is having one of the best PG seasons of all time. How to decide between the two? Better team? Lame. Would you choose Shaq this year over Wade? His team did have a better record. One thing I find it odd no one talks about is character. Lebron is a self-interested, self-promoting jerk who cares more about being a billionaire and being a celebrity than winning. CP is a selfless giver who is humble on the floor as he is off. Is he a punk on the floor? Hell,yeah; but so was Jordan.
Incidentally, the only one close to Jordan is Kobe. Lebron is more like Shaq: an unstoppable dunker. Only he starts at the three point line; once some coach figures a counter to that one move what will Lebron be? Tracy McGrady without a shot. So don’t try and convince me otherwise. I understand it’s a minority opinion; I’m not blind. But Lebron himself is the only one that can potentially change my mind.
I don’t know MW… I know everyone talks about Lebron’s lack of a midrange and outside game, and its definitely subpar, but I imagine it will improve as he gets older. I mean, Jordan shot under 20% from three for his first few seasons, and didn’t break 30% until his fifth season. Bron already has a 30-35% three point shot, and really that’s not much worse than Kobe. Bron’s real problem is that his 2 pt jumper isn’t any more consistent than his 3 pointer – but I imagine it will improve. And the fact is, he hasn’t needed a consistent jumper to dominate thus far and I don’t know if he ever will.
I do think its fitting for Lebront to get the MVP this year. I think its ludicrous that CP isn’t the #2 or *at worst* the consensus #3.
I agree Caleb that CP should at least be #2 or #3. Being #5 and not even being on some people’s list is ludicrous indeed. No, his team didn’t “live up to expectations” this season but having a better statistical season than last season while still getting his injury riddled team into the playoffs should at least earn a little more respect than what he’s been given imo. Again, if it’s all about team records, one of the Celtics’ Big 3 should’ve been MVP last season. Probably KG for bringing his “passion and intensity” to the team.
They should have tied the entire ESPN staff up to chairs and forced them to watch the game the Hornets lost to the Grizzlies– without Chris Paul– and shot 29% from the field. Shudder… no one should have to be subjected to that game, but at least then they’d see what CP means to his team.
Haha, that game was so ugly. Yikes. Brick after brick…
If anything, CP is above Wade in MVP because of that argument that “better record” argument.
I agree with hoopsfan007 that the whole “the league hates our team” is due primarily to the rather shitty officiating. In a sport like basketball, there are inherent problems in getting every call right (as opposed to football or baseball), but that doesn’t make it right either. But the league DOES prefer good match-ups. Case in point: Cleveland-San Antonio drew HORRIBLE finals viewership, and Boston-Los Angeles finals drew INCREDIBLE viewership. More viewers, more interest, more investing, more revenue. Don’t tell me the league would prefer a Milwaukee-Oklahoma City match-up in the finals. Because you’d be lying.
@Mark. I don’t think anyone would argue that.
I know, Caleb. Just restating the obvious!
By the way, why is D-still-can’t-spell-his-name-right-Wayne Wade’s NBA player profile a glamour shot? I find that rather peculiar. Conspiracy, even.
My biggest problem with NBA officials is that they are very inconsistent. I’m not even talking about from preseason to postseason. I’m talking about possession to possession, 1st quarter to 4th. The superstars get calls whilst the journeyman or rookie gets 3 fouls in 4 minutes and a seat on the bench. You cannot tell me that LRJ has only committed 3 or 4 fouls (whatever the his ridiculous low number is) in the three playoff games he has played. No way.
I have no idea if it is just simply human nature or the Stern Button being pressed, but I think it is a very real and obvious problem, and league officials seem not to care.
Great point $nave. That whole post about the foul situation on Lebron is way dodgy. Incredible read.
@Mark, I think the entire Heat team’s profile pics are that way.
@ticktock6, don’t forget that Blazer game where the Hornets were winning the entire time until CP’s groin got injured and the Hornets fell completely apart and went on to lose the game.
@$nave, I agree. I can’t say it enough but that is my main problem with officiating…….. “inconsistency”.
Haha. Weird. Even more conspiracy, or Stern’s got a crush on the Heat (cause I think Miami’s won that dance team bracket the last 40 years?)
Paul Shirley’s ramblings of Miami are hilarious. Excerpts:
“I am not going to suggest that the Miami Heat just went to some local [gentleman's] club and hired the whole roster as their dance team. Instead, I will simply say that I was impressed with their dancing abilities.”
“Based on the crowd at the game, the use of silicone per capita in Miami has got to be the highest in the US. All in all, a good night for testing one’s ability to focus through distraction.”
@Mark, LMAO @ Shirley.
Ha! I’m watching the Detroit/Cleveland game and they showed the stat that so far during the series, Lebron has taken more free throws than the entire Detroit team. Lebron, 24-31. Detroit 23-28.